Miss Widmore? I think we found it...
Season two finale "Live Together, Die Alone" discussion HERE.
posted by Germain at 11:42 PM
"We're not the only people on this island and we all know it."
posted by Germain at 11:42 PM
20 Comments:
I have a lot to say but we'll start at the end of course.
I just talked to my brother and Nishan and we've all come together to this far fetched theory about the ending. Penny Whitmore told Desmond, "I have alot of money. You can find anyone if you have alot of money." So I think she is looking for Desmond. But why would she be looking for electromagnetic irregularites? Maybe because her father, Mr. Whitmore, who owns a construction company according to Nish, is in bed with the Hanzo Foundation on a man made island that's not destinted to be found. On that island, they can conduct all types of experiments and Mr. Whitmore knows, if some how during his sail boat race, if he can get Desmond marooned on this island, he can make him disappear forever. SO - the daughter knows this, the daughter wants to find her lover, and she knows that the island her father made has this weird electromagnetic thing. So she hired some guys to look for this island. It's the island that is LOST. Not just the survivors. Ok - that's one theory.
Ok - other questions and comments in this episode.
Thoughts on the four toed statue ruins?
What does Elizabeth (Libby) have to do with everyone?
What did one snowman say to the other? (Meaning, why is Calvin really Joe - the general from Sayid's flashback - and how did he end up on the island?)
They can fake a lockdown to draw the map.
Apparently, the button releases the buildup of an intense electromagnetic charge and when it's not pushed, this intense magnetic charge draws things to it...like planes with numbers that match the ones you have to press - like Flight 815. Desmond crashed the plane.
Is Henry Gale the leader of the others? Who was the "he" he was frightened of?
When Desmond turned the key, did he blow up the hatch? Or did it just reverse the magnetic field? Or did it send out a distress signal? What was that bright light and why didn't the others react to it? Is that why the door flew to the beach?
And was the pearl hatch really the experiment? And are Locke, Desmond and Eko okay?
What the fuck is going to happent to Walt and Michael going on course 235? What about the captured Kate, Jack and Sawyer?
Um - those are just a few of my thoughts. I'm going to bed now.
Edit on theory 1 I posted as its this morning and my mind is still racing. Whitmore and Hanzo are together on this island - but something has gone horribly wrong, aka - the incident. So the island has been lost, the Dharma folk working on the island have become outcasts - still continuing their experiments but in their own ways - and Whitmore has given up. All his daughter knows is that the incident that made the island go away was electromagnetic in nature and that's why she's looking for pulses. That also seems like a good place for her father to maroon her true love.
G, solid theory. Makes sense here. Again, not wanting to fall into the HH pitfalls the show puts out before you, but this is the first time we've received physical confirmation that the outside world still exists contemporary to what's going on on the island.
All of your questions I have no answers to (I was actually kind of mad that that's "all" that happened when Desmond turned the failsafe key, it felt like a cheat, i.e. any fallout (if at all) will have to wait, or simply not be addressed), but to me, the statue with four toes was definitely the coolest thing from last night.
Like, where the hell did that come from?! My roomate and I immediately thought of the Collosus of Rhodes, but really, I have nothing else otherwise. The Collosus of Rhodes is rumored to have been around Greece/Turkey, that part of the world. Weird.
I still can't believe Michael sold out his people, but of course, that's not the last we'll see of him and Walt. Why did they want Hurley, just to let him go though?
Fake Henry Gale certainly seems to be a leader, if not THE leader (but maybe that's what they want you to think?) and I know its been said before, but Alex is hot.
Pete
p.s. Sayid is STILL the greatest untapped resource on this show. His line to Jack last night about Michael, calm but with complete certainty, "He has been turned", was awesome.
A great way to end the season. Before I dive in, here're some reactions from me and Phantom D during the show:
Halfway Through:
D: "They're showing us everything!"
Me: "Holy shit."
At the End:
D: "Goddamnit they didn't show us shit!"
Me: "I know! What the fuck, that's it?!?"
Bittersweet, for sure. Despite it being a 2-hr. ep, it sure did feel short when the end title came up. Ok enough crap, let's get to it:
-The introduction of Widmore and his daughter is very interesting, it sorta solidifies that there's some grand plan going on.
-Whether or not Widmore is tied directly to Hanso or Dharma still remains to be seen, maybe he did his part for the island and isn't a part of it anymore, or isn't involved at all. Maybe we're meant to assume Daddy Widmore is involved, when really his daughter is just spending a ton of cash on a tip she got from someone/somewhere else.
-The four-toed statue. Casabla, totally the coolest moment of the ep, this planting of new plot seeds for next season. I love the depth of LOST's mythos.
-Desmond being the one who crashed the plane is very cool, but I'm not entirely convinced that's the whole story. Why? See my next point.
-I think it still remains to be seen if The Others are as all-powerful as we've come to see them as. Am I the only one who thought they looked SCARED during the EMP white-out?
-On why I think Locke, Eko, and Dessie are still possibly alive. Yes Dessie turned the key, yes Locke and Eko were well within the blast radius -- but we're talking about an electromagnetic pulse, which means that everything electronic is killed, but everything else, including the island and its inhabitants, is a-ok. We still don't really know what the key was for. We ASSUME the hatch blew up because of the quarantine door. But could that possibly mean the hatch door that the LOSTies blew open isn't an entryway, and maybe that's why it was locked so tight? Maybe it was for channeling the EMP?
-Back to The Others. I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't get more on them, and what concerns me the most is that even if they are who Henry says they are ("good guys"), how could they ever forgive the LOSTies for killing as many of their people as they have? It makes me think they'll never be on the same side, at least not in a fair way where The Others aren't manipulating them in some way.
-Walt and Michael will def be back. The Lost Island theory that you cooked up, G, is money -- there's no getting off this island, boat or no boat. Here's why:
-Remember Dessie, at the beginning of the ep after he returns, he says something manic to the effect of "it's a snowglobe," if I remember correctly. That immediately made me think of the image from Walt's Green Lantern comic book, where we see a city encased by a clear dome. HMMM...
-I like the idea of the Swan hatch being real, the Pearl a test, something nobody would've guessed after Locke and Eko watched Orientation 2: Electric Bugaloo. The fact that all the cannisters from Pearl hatch were just sitting around, unread, is a pretty convincing bit of imagery, on top of the craziness that went down in the Swan hatch.
Questions:
-Why don't we see Kelvin's/Radzinski's map when the fake lockdown occurs? Do the blacklights only come on during a real lockdown? And how is Kelvin painting the map without being able to see it?
-Can we trust anything Kelvin (aka Sayid's American soldier-boy) told us, or was it all meant to convince Dessie to push the button?
I'm sure I have more but I wanna read some other people's comments.
During this ep, I really felt the freshness of the crash -- they've only been on the island 60-some-odd days, so the beef between LOSTies isn't unreal. I get a better sense of why Michael did what he did, and although he did look genuinely sorry when Hurley called him out, part of him still seemed confident that he made the right choice. He doesn't care about anyone on the island, these strangers that call him friend; he just wants his son back.
And I'm betting that in season 3, the island -- or The Others -- will want Walt back too.
j.
I don't even know where to start. I've been discussing the episode with my brothers non-stop since it ended. I think we were even conversing in our sleep.
Germain's theory about the island being lost is interesting because when the first hanso site went up, there was a map that when you moused-over the bermuda triangle you were able to click. I forget exactly what it linked to but I think it had something to do with the island.
Apparently, there's some sorta fiji triangle as well? I haven't looked into this, but theories have suggested that the island is moving.
There was a heavy reference to cloning/duping in last night's episode. Walt is so special to join "the others", yet they let him leave so easily with Michael - he's been known to be in two places at once. Charlie seems rather stoic over the events in the hatch when he gets to the island with Claire which makes you wonder if it was the real Charlie. And apparently, Jack was one of the portugeuse guys in that Siberian-like test station. My brother told me this one - he said he thought it was the same actor. I didn't catch it so I'm waiting to d/l it tonight on iTunes.
Here's my list of questions/comments:
Libby is building up past ties with the characters left and right.
Penelope's dad is Mr Whitmore. She has gained info about his work involving the island somehow.
Libby was married to David. Hurley's imaginary friend was Dave. (coincidence?) David had a boat that she just gave away to Desmond.
Sayid's exploration of 'the others' site with the hatch being fake was awesome.
What is the significance of the four-toed statue. There has to be something. I'm pretty sure it's not a reference to the Collosus of Rhodes, although that did pop in my mind at first as well.
The writers made Hurley think the bird said his name because in last season's finale, the same bird flew past and LOST fans thought the bird said Hurley.
Kate got groped by Alex at the end!!!
What was that look Jack gave Kate at the end? The nod that suggested, 'let's begin our plan'.
When the hatch system is shut down "It makes all this go away." What?! The white light was eraser-like. The others seemed unaffected by it. Did the white flash outside the hatch occur before or after he turned the key?
I don't think Henry Gale is "he". Although Henry seems to be in charge at the end, I think there are more powerful people behind everything that is going on. Where are they taking Jack and Kate since the other site was a fake?
Desmond said "See you in another life, brother!" again. yay.
The pearl station was fake, the swan was not. Whoa!
I'm sure there is much more. Quite the intense episode!
Scott - the cloning thing, especially with walt, is very interesting and plausible. I dont know about Charlie and it certainly was NOT jack at the very end - though I did read the actors resembled he and sawyer.
Good catch with the inside joke with the bird. I also love when Sawyer goes, "Want to know what I think? They're aliens. They dress up to cover up that fact" or something like that - it was like damon and carlton were joking with the devoted fans.
Nishan mentioned that Widmore Construction was scene before and on EW.com it says "In the show's ancillary mythology, Charles Widmore is a bazillionaire with ties to the Hanso Foundation and, thus, the Dharma Initiative." That would help with my theory about him stranding Desmond and Penny looking for him, but, where did this info come from?
Alot of the Whitmore information was from a website. I haven't kept up with all the online stuff, so only know what summaries of it I have read.
Widmore Construction had a banner of some sort on the building in Charlie's flashback to the "You All Everybaby" video shoot. According to the podcast, we were supposed to be able to read it on the show but it was too small. NH, producers.
It also appears on the pregnancy test that Sun used -- I think it was Widmore Pharmaceuticals or something like that there.
I think there've been hints that Widmore has ties to Hanso / Dharma, but nothing concrete as far as I can remember.
Scott, amazing call on the cloning/doubles theme. Its been addressed before with Walt ("has he ever somewhere he shouldn't?") and I definitely thought there was something 'off' about Charlie last night. Specifically, the Charlie that finds Locke crying in the jungle acts completely different from "real" Charlie, i.e. the one Eko goes to for help.
Pete
Here's a thought:
On why The Others chose Kate, Sawyer, and Jack:
Who else on the island is "important?" Locke, Eko, Sayid, and Rousseau are the big players. Charlie, Claire, Jin/Sun are secondary players, and don't have decision-making roles -- they're followers. Ana Lucia could be up there, but guess what? She dead. And Michael's an obvious choice because he'll do anything to get back Walt.
Locke, after the finale, is basically established as the idiot who let the timer run to zero, a guy who's lost his faith in everything and hasn't fully investigated the island mysteries.
Eko is the guy who killed two Others with his bare hands, and doesn't play a big role in group decisions, running solo most of the time. He's also too invested now with the hatch stuff to be pulled away, this could be a reason why Locke was excluded as well.
Sayid, as versatile and knowledgeable as he is, is almost TOO knowledgeable, and the military background probably doesn't help. Not to mention he's the guy who tortured Henry Gale, so there isn't much reason for The Others wanting to take him other than for revenge, and personally, I don't think The Others are the avenging types.
Rousseau has been on the island for god knows how long and has yet to be captured. Are The Others allowing her to live (because of Alex), is she crazy, or is she actually an Other herself?
Jack, Kate, and Sawyer all have met The Others previously, and play the biggest roles on the island as decision-makers and group leaders. So if my assumption is right, these guys were singled out (Hurley was selected because The Others know he'd be too scared to mount a serious rescue party) so the LOSTies would be truly lost, with no one to guide them and make decisions for them...
Could that be why they chose those specific people?
Just watched the finale finally, and I've got way too much on my mind... but it's been fun reading this... I pretty much can't get around the idea that Eko and Locke, based on the sheer amount of shit flying around in the hatch and the counter (and presumably the walls next) started buckling... are most likely dead.
Gotta sleep now, if possible.
Just watched the finale finally, and I've got way too much on my mind... but it's been fun reading this... I pretty much can't get around the idea that Eko and Locke, based on the sheer amount of shit flying around in the hatch and the counter (and presumably the walls next) started buckling... are most likely dead.
Gotta sleep now, if possible.
Sam - glad you finally made it to the world of the enlightened (as I did last weekend watching the new world, it was good). And Chang - I think your theory on leadership is simple, perfect and probably true.
So here's where I'm stuck -- who here can give some evidence that Whitmore has connections to Hanzo? Is this something from the Lost Experience online, or is there evidence in the show itself? Because the dude was incredibly familiar, and I don't know if it's from the show, or if I've just seen him in movies.
Cause as of now, it all makes sense except for the question of why Penelope is searching for elecromagnetic fluctuations and assuming she'll find Desmond there. I don't really buy yet that Mr. Whitmore sank Desmond and Penny is putting two and two together.
Also, just stop and think for a minute that for the first time, we seem to know for sure that this IS all happening -- no dream, hallucination, any other unexplainable mumbo jumbo. This raises a problem with me. If we now know that the button is real, it literally does "save the world" by harnessing this electromagnetic vaccuum, what else is there in the realm of the unknown to have faith in? There's the mystery of Hanzo, Dharma, and the whole scientific operation, but gone is that sense of wonder that something truly phenomenal is taking place. It's as though Locke's apparent death is a straight-up metaphor for this transition.
Just some thoughts... I believe that no matter how much will be explained by science in the future of the show, something else will emerge that will restore our faith in the unknown on LOST. At least that's my hope.
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Widmore
Check it out Gamgee. Seems there are a lot of connections.
And the reason he looks familiar is because Alan Dale was not only on THE OC as Caleb Nichol but on ER, The X-Files, 24 and more.
Sorry for the tardy comment - My mind's a little blown and you have all put your thoughts, observations and questions so succinctly that I can only say "ditto."
Did we ever expect that at the end of the season we'd come to learn that Desmond (and his backstory) would play such a huge role in the big picture? I'm kinda loving him, with his boat and his booze and his accent. He's a lover, not a fighter.
I don't think there's any way they'd kill off Locke or Desmond. Eko is pretty much expendable, especially since his button-pushing obsession will now be irrelevant. At least one of them will survive because they're going to have a great story to tell about what they saw when shit went down.
Good call on the Walt clone theory, Scott. Did anyone else find it weird that Walt was only a couple of feet away, definitely within earshot, when everything was going down on the pier, yet he never called out to his father? Maybe because it's not really Walt, hmm?
I think the longing look between Kate and Jack at the end signaled nothing except affection/comfort. Interesting that she chose to look at Jack, now Sawyer.
Henry Gale is even creepier when he is in control.
The episode gave you so much, but attempting to translate it all only leaves you with more questions than you had to begin with. They're smart. Very smart.
Sorry I've yet to chime in, folks.
Too much to think about on this one... seriously...
But, Jon, I actually think you're slightly off on the reasons for "The Others" picking Sawyer, Jack and Kate... it's because they don't have any faith. If they wanted leaders, they could have picked Locke, Sayid, Mr. Eko as well. But, the problem is -- they have faith, belief in something bigger than themselves. Not Sawyer. Not Jack. And, not Kate.
Also, I've read little discussion on Henry Gale's comment about "The Others" being 'the good guys.' Does any one actually think he might be right? I actually think "The Others" might not be all THAT bad...
finally...
WHAT ABOUT THE FUCKING FOOT?!?!?!
Interesting call on the use of the island as a military weapon.
Too bad the army would be prepared as they were for Magneto with plastic weapons! *EG*
Something we haven't discussed is the implementation of the system shutdown key.
Was it just a cop out to end the pushing of the button or was it planned all along?
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